Speakers

Key Takeaways

1. What is the New York State Energy Plan? 
   • The New York State Energy Plan is an actionable and objective framework to guide progress toward abundant, affordable, reliable and clean energy to all New Yorkers. 

2. How does the Draft Energy Plan align with New York’s climate goals? 
   • The climate goals set by the CLCPA Scoping Plan are foundational to the design of the energy plan. The energy plan aims to take a holistic approach to achieving climate goals by considering the current state of the market, the availability of new technology, and the rate of change. The plan will offer a projection on when the CLCPA goals are attainable, without overriding them. 

3. How does nuclear energy fit into New York State’s energy plan? 
   • New York State’s energy plan pivots to nuclear technology as a new source for generation. Energy infrastructure in New York is aging and there is a need for high quality power that is readily available. Establishing new nuclear facilities is one way that New York can generate large loads of energy to meet growing demand, without relying on fossil fuels. 

4. How do buildings fit into New York State’s Energy Plan? 
   • The building is considered as one part of the overall energy system. Decarbonization and energy efficiency are essential components of New York’s energy policy moving forward. The plan aims to optimize the grid and improving building energy use is critical. 

5. What is the future of the gas system in New York? 
   • Currently, the New York State Public Service Commission is developing a plan on how to reduce reliance on gas and optimize the strategy for electrification. During this planning period, over the next 15 years, there will still be reliance on the gas system to meet energy needs. 

6. How can the State’s Draft Plan advance Local Law 97? 
   • Local action is essential to achieving State goals. The purpose of the energy plan is to provide a resource for communities that they can use for local decision-making about energy-related needs. 

7. What are the next steps for finalizing the plan? 
   • The public comment period is closed. For next steps, the State Energy Planning Board will assess the comments received so far to make appropriate adjustments to the plan. The board aims to finalize the plan before the end of the year. 

AI Summary

Danielle Manley:
Hi everybody! Welcome to Urban Green’s podcast, Building Tomorrow, where we have conversations with climate solvers. Every day, we meet people who make a big difference in the built environment and are moving us closer to a low-carbon future—and we want to hear their stories. 

Before we begin today’s episode, I’d like to thank Carrier, our podcast sponsor.

My name is Danielle Manley. I’m the Associate Director of Policy at Urban Green Council. Today I’m thrilled to welcome John Williams, Chief Policy Officer at the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA).

We’ll be talking about New York’s draft State Energy Plan, which will guide energy-related decision-making in the state for the next 15 years, from now until 2040. The plan’s goals are to balance meeting future energy demands with affordable, reliable, clean energy. Urban Green’s mission is to decarbonize buildings for healthy and resilient communities, so this topic is particularly relevant for our audience.

So let’s get into it. 

First, John, welcome to the podcast and thanks for joining us today. Can you tell us about your background? What path did you take to get to this work?

(0:59) John’s path to energy policy

John Williams:
Hey, Danielle—thanks for having me. I’m happy to be here. My path didn’t necessarily start with thinking about climate or energy. I was a history major in college. After graduating, I had options to either work in publishing in New York City, or work in insurance in Omaha, or work in a utility company in New Mexico. I chose New Mexico—probably for reasons beyond utility work—but I will have to say that working at the utility did provide me with the foundation that’s followed me up until today. 

–

At the utility, I learned how utility finances are structured. We were evaluating new large generation and it was creating some financial pressures, and we had to be creative to address them. That carried into law school, when I worked at the Pace Energy and Climate Center, doing administrative practice at public service commissions and advocating for environmental programs. Because we were in an era of utility deregulation, it was essential to understand how those programs would fit in a newly deregulated industry and what that meant for support for utility companies.

That led me to the New York State Assembly, where I was Energy Counsel for the Energy Committee Chair, Paul Tonko, for a number of years. From there, I moved to NYSERDA, and the policy work has continued. The through-line has been understanding the industry we’re trying to influence—so we can transition it for environmental, economic, and social outcomes. That foundation has really helped me get to this point.

(3:25) What deregulation changed for how electricity is generated and delivered

Danielle Manley:
That’s so interesting—thank you. Could I ask for a quick synopsis of what you mean by a “deregulated industry”? I’m not sure everyone in our audience knows what happened with deregulation in New York State.

John Williams:
Sure. Traditionally, electric utilities were vertically integrated—soup to nuts. Utilities owned big power plants and generated electricity; they moved it over transmission lines; and they distributed it to retail customers over local wires. Deregulation introduced competition in the generation portion of the business. Utilities spun off generation assets into separate, private companies that sell into a wholesale market. Utilities still own and operate the wires, which remain regulated industries in the state.

That shift affected how we think about bringing new generation resources into the electricity mix, implications for how we thought about the utilization of electricity, and how energy efficiency can reduce costs and shape load profiles so we need less generation. It also matters today as we decarbonize, especially in buildings—because flexibility on the demand side helps match competitive supplies on the grid side.

(5:32) What is the State Energy Plan and how does it impact affordability, reliability, decarbonization, and load growth?

Danielle Manley:
Thanks—that’s really helpful context. For listeners who don’t know: what is the State Energy Plan? What’s its purpose and history, and what’s in this draft?

John Williams:
New York has had energy plans going back to the 1980s. The plan provides a high-level perspective—trajectories, projections, directions and a vision for where we want our energy system to be heading in NYS. Previously, a lot of energy planning was just looking at systems. After the 1970s energy crisis, it became clear we needed a broad view to guide both the financial decision-making that needed to happen, as well as the policy creation that needed to happen to realize the outcomes that the energy plan was demonstrating, specifically around introducing new technologies, maintaining affordability, supporting economic growth, and meeting environmental goals.

So the plan gives state and local government and private industry a roadmap: what types of investments are needed over time, why, and the expected economic and environmental outcomes.

Danielle Manley:
What’s the vision in the current draft for the next 15 years?

John Williams:
It’s a multidisciplinary approach. We’re focused on environmental outcomes, yes—but also affordability and reliability issues, especially with faster-than-expected load growth. Large new loads are a fantastic economic opportunity, but we must be able to meet their energy needs on time.

So the plan looks across technologies: their status, how they’re entering markets, their likely penetration, and the pace we can realistically sustain. For example, with heat pumps replacing fossil-fueled systems in buildings, we look at electricity and fuel prices, replacement costs, and adoption rates over the planning period. We do that across the full energy landscape.

(09:51) How the Energy Plan aligns with the CLCPA

Danielle Manley:
The last plan was drafted over a decade ago. Since then, New York passed the Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act (CLCPA) in 2019, requiring the next State Energy Plan to incorporate the Climate Action Council’s recommendations to reach an 85% emissions reduction by 2050. Where does the draft align most closely, and where did you have to balance competing goals?

John Williams:
Baseline: Many of the scoping plan’s recommendations translate directly into this draft Energy Plan. The direction—continued decarbonization of our energy system and economy—remains foundational.

What’s changed are external factors since the law passed and even since the scoping plan was finalized. The biggest is the lingering impact of pandemic-driven supply-chain disruptions and inflation. Suppliers of clean-energy technologies have struggled to meet the demand levels assumed in earlier analyses. That reality affects pace. And it’s economy-wide—even conventional energy projects have long waits for major components.

So the plan adopts a bottom-up approach that reflects technology availability and cost conditions. The energy plan definitely shows we’re going to reach those goals; it simply recognizes that the timeline may shift because of factors outside the state’s control.

(13:44) Timelines vs. targets 

Danielle Manley:
Some targets include 70% electricity from renewable sources by 2030 and zero-emission electricity by 2040. Are those still achievable?

John Williams:
Yes—the plan indicates we can reach them, but the exact timing may vary. We’re building scenarios, assuming levels of penetration of renewable technology, energy efficiency that are necessary to get to those climate goals. The scenarios show a range of outcomes. One year might look like zero by 2045; another might look like zero by 2042. The point is: the commitment doesn’t change, but projections reflect real-world conditions.

(16:23) Why nuclear is back in the mix

Danielle Manley:
Let’s pivot to nuclear. The draft puts more emphasis on nuclear power than New York State has in recent years, after Indian Point’s closure. How does nuclear power fit New York’s future?

John Williams:
New advanced nuclear technology is interesting for several reasons. First, very large new loads—like cutting-edge chip manufacturing—need substantial, highly available power. Some single facilities could match the combined load of Vermonth and New Hampsire. Advanced nuclear can serve that baseload requirement.

Second, we have aging infrastructure and aggressive electrification goals. We’ll need new zero-emission power to meet system needs.

Third, today’s advanced designs feature different fuels, coolants, and enhanced safety systems compared to legacy plants. It’s a generational shift compared to a plant like Indian Point. Many are modular, enabling different use cases and avoiding putting a burden on the grid. We’re studying which technologies and applications make sense for New York through a master plan and engaging New Yorkers statewide. We’re also working with other states to grow the industry responsibly, put safety first, and mitigate cost risk to consumers. In parallel, we also want to bring the economic development that these new technologies and new facilities can provide, which is behind the New York Power Authority’s directive to build at least one nuclear facility, which they are exploring how to proceed.

(22:27) Buildings continue to be front and center

Danielle Manley:
I’m going to make a shameless plug for Urban Green here for a second…, we had Justin Driscoll on Urban Green Live recently talking further about the future of New York Nuclear Power. Justin Driscoll heads the New York Power Authority. So if you want an even deeper conversation about nuclear power in NYS, please tune into that episode. 

At Urban Green, we are focused on buildings. The building sector, as you know, is the largest contributor of carbon emissions across New York State —how does the plan support efficiency and decarbonization in the sector, and what challenges are you navigating?

John Williams:
Efficiency and building decarbonization are core to system planning. We need sustained support across all building types and customer classes to reduce demand, shift load, and maintain affordability. Critically, we must integrate buildings into grid operations—with controls, storage, and flexible load that can respond to price or reliability signals. If we ignore this, we risk overbuilding energy generation infrastructure. 

We need to make sure that we are not thinking about building energy efficiency as an isolated set of activities or only electrification for the purpose of decarbonization. We want to make sure we’re making buildings as efficient as possible before we decarbonize to make sure we’re making efficient use of any new onsite electrification technologies to meet the building’s needs. That building has to become part of the overall energy system. We have to think about how internal building controls can allow for the loads within that building to become far more flexible. And that might mean battery technologies for energy storage and controls that can interact with the grid so that when the grid is signaling, whether it’s through price, or reliability issues, that the building itself can become part of a response to grid pressures. This is what we call the grid edge.

The plan assumes deep efficiency, high levels of electrification, with load flexibility so the grid can be sized and operated efficiently.

(27:45) Transitioning the gas system

Danielle Manley:
As buildings electrify and rely less on gas for heat and hot water, how is the plan approaching the future of the gas system?

John Williams:
It’s complex. We’re in a transition period, and over the next 15 years we’ll still have significant reliance on gas and even liquid fuels for various uses. We must maintain those systems safely and serve  customers who can’t electrify immediately. The Public Service Commission has initiated gas planning aligned with the Climate Act, and we’re implementing levers like all-electric new construction. The aim is an optimized electrification strategy that informs future gas system needs while maintaining safety and adequacy during the transition.

(30:34) State and local alignment

Danielle Manley:
Local laws, like NYC’s LL97, are key drivers. Local Law 97, which covers just 50,000 buildings, a very small share of the state’s nearly 6 million buildings, but they account for a third of citywide emissions in New York and 6% of statewide emissions across all sectors. How can the State Energy Plan support local efforts that advance statewide goals?

John Williams:
Local action is essential. Beyond state policy recommendations, we want the plan to be an education resource—a tool municipalities can use to understand options, benefits, and how state thinking translates locally. We want the energy plan to also serve as a device for localities to be able to use within their communities to demonstrate what options look like, what the state is thinking of, and what that means for each locality. It helps communities justify clean-energy decisions that deliver local value.

Danielle Manley:
There’s a part of the plan in the building sector which talks about helping make energy efficiency and electrification upgrades more affordable. We are looking forward to the ways in which the plan can outline and help cities address some of those cost barriers. With a 15-year horizon, is there flexibility to course-correct as markets and policies evolve?

John Williams:
Absolutely. The plan operates on a four-year cycle with two-year updates. We re-analyze projections, incorporate new technologies and policies, and adjust. Even during this drafting process, we updated analysis to reflect federal shifts that were larger than initially assumed. It’s a living planning process.

(37:54) What’s Next?

Danielle Manley:
The public comment period just closed. What’s next for finalizing the plan, and what role do organizations like Urban Green play in implementation?

John Williams:
It’s been a robust comment process, which is great. We’ll assess them, make appropriate adjustments, and the Planning Board is aiming to finalize the plan before year-end, assuming things proceed as expected. On implementation, organizations like Urban Green are the boots on the ground—turning analysis into real projects, policies, and market progress. Not every policy emerges fully formed on the first pass, so we value pilots and proof points that build acceptance and inform future policy. We’re eager to partner to keep momentum and deliver the outcomes the plan is designed to achieve.

Danielle Manley:
That’s a great place to close. John, thank you for your time today. New York continues to be a national leader in the clean-energy transition, and I learned a lot from this conversation.

John Williams:
Thanks, Danielle—happy to be here. I hope it was helpful to your audience as well.

Danielle Manley:
All resources from today’s episode are linked in the description. Thanks again to Carrier for sponsoring this podcast, and thanks to Urban Green’s members and sponsors. If you’d like to become a member, visit urbangreencouncil.org. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe so you don’t miss future conversations. See you next time.